Mark Montieth on the Pacers

The Kent Sterling Show
Wednesday, October 4th

Transcript - Not for consumer use. Robot overlords only. Will not be accurate.

Teams from pacers dot com joins as the pacers pre season is can open a night in Milwaukee they play the box. We don't expect to great things from the paces this year kind of been rebuilding mode and mark did I mean that's the thing we're gonna have to manage your expectations. There's your point oh I think so first of all Kent thanks for having me now and what it takes for having me on a day you didn't take a shower. But it still going to be here worth here and yes your practices. However you want to describe it it's basically removing many had this many new faces nine new players on the roster believe. That's rebuilding but I it doesn't mean he can't be an interesting and exciting season I think will be a fun team to watch. But as much as any team I've been around with the pacers I don't know what to expect from this team well I yeah I have no prediction at this point. Collison what people bring Donna Fitch have never played with one another ever young inter have. But no other combination. Of players has played together sell. And it is Nate McMillan really odd job one is figuring out who plays best with who and how do you develop. Some chemistry that these guys and we know that chemistry takes time to develop into the great teams have been together awhile. The core of that team anyway and it takes time you know the pacers team that got to departments in 2000 you know look how long those guys have been the right there. So yeah it's a new team and there will be growing pains just no doubt about that. I just wanna see team that is more fun to watch more consistent in its effort. Runs a better half court offense either where the ball doesn't get stopped you know last year's team head ball stoppers Paul George was a ball stopper Maya L speeded the ball in his hands yeah Jeff Teague needed to bomb his hands. I don't think this team has guys who need the ball their hands to be effective so hopefully we see better ball movement. And just more flowing offense and on I. I I watched a bit of the rockets thunder game last night and Paul George gets the Iraq makes the layout didn't get the call. Takes the ball on the bucket kind of slams it against the floor anglers at the official. As like I am not gonna miss them. Are you tired of that business mumbo goodness every player you Reggie Miller used to get technical thousand. You know go back to the ABA slick Leonard kick balls into the stands the main players coaches have an act. Protesting calls since day one of the officiating bay it got out of hand there's no question about you cannot protest. Every call or every electrical. I don't look like chuck person I remember kicking the ball into other stands are it's very always on Chicago yeah that's why I remembered because I lived in Chicago that and a thumb. Okay and I tight you know what that's sit if you don't get mad go full on nuts mad dog just whine and don't stare down a guy because I I think that that's just. I mean what he's doing you're a guy Macon nineteen million dollars staring down a guy who's making a 130. Or a 170 they make a lot of money in our world but compared Derrick a guy like Paul George. Why do you jerk yeah and I think were. Always impressed more by a full blown temper tantrum and we are by somebody to snag this year gripe and are given to dirty looks or whatever that this turned you off now you might. If somebody goes nuts that might get your attention to make you think. Amid it'd make a better off are so right like that in my remember that the next time we see him but if somebody assists. Now Gannett Xia and your bitching all the time did then that does is just annoying and it does not help the player does. That's what they don't get which which I can't wrap my arms around like what kind of outcome are you trying to cause through your behavior. We should all think that way why it will or driving. Maybe a word road rage people. And we get man pocket guide tailgate the guy what are we trying to get that person to do. Do we want them to pullover and Paula gone and should descend the brain properly and I have to thank could be the result think about the result as you monitor your own behavior. I am Paul George should know from past experience that all his griping has done him no good unity right I'm getting calls he's not getting Michael Jordan calls that kind of thing he's not getting superstar treatment for the officials. So maybe try a different approach because what you've done in the past has not worked. Does he overestimate. His importance to the NBA and basketball in general probably I think Paulson guys who has struggled with fame you know he became famous getting on Jimmy Kimmel you know he's gotten endorsements he's a nationally known figure. And that's a lot for any young person to deal with an end the occupation and I think Paul has struggled with that somewhat in Uganda. Maintain a work ethic you gotta maintain your approach toward winning basketball games. I go back to that thirteen fourteen seasons when he made his first appearance on the Jimmy Kimmel. There were that crazy green out here are mirror in this week Kimball suggested he would change is number thirteen MB PG thirteen and all that. You could track that there's a ten game stretch there. The game lead again of that appearance in the nine games after re slumped in directed display. It just got into his head and then they have the all star break and Paul talked about a poll civic got you to the all star break and talk to guys like Colby. And they help me with some things and he played well the rest of the year deepened well in the playoffs that year. But I. Dude I can imagine that dealing with that level fame would be a distraction to getting all this money you're so famous he's got people coming matchup. A you gotta stay focused and do the things that got you to that point in I think Paul has struggled with being as famous as he has. I remembered talking to you back during those days like thirteen fourteen where you said that that locker room was really really functional fun to walk into in a fun team to cover. Is that how that thing kinda lose on schooled and became a little bit more chaotic where it was no longer fund to cover. Partly I think that team you know remember they did the GQ saying they you there right getting a lot of you know. Fans here can say one of the pacers get any national respect would you really want it because right you get it becomes a big distraction it's better to have the chip on your shoulder. In the older. Thank you deserve more so that team when it started getting national attention did kind of come apart. I blame the so called break up about those two conference finals teams are sort of Torre ever I mean Roy never. Also. Yeah I was not dealing with his fame he became a two time all star he had people in his ear saying you begin the ball more ECB school one more Euro star you know and they tried to appease them by getting in the ball early in games and then going away from. And literally world remember he spoke out. And said we got some selfish dudes on this team that quote to David Aldridge that went national Benny was embarrassed and you went to a shell. And he's never been the same sense and I think that's wood that was stirred all remember. Aldridge. Attributing that did it not the quote but does topic of the quote the subject. Paul George and I didn't see that but we're looking back on it now when I was critical of a 'cause I thought it showed. Kind of that national oh he's just assuming. Facts not in evidence it were the local guys we kind of see it. And Bob May be was. Paul Drudge I think newest. I think Roy was frustrated with Paul Lance both yeah Lance was nearing an all star level play and they were kind of the focus of the offensive remember. Bulls' offense was short children going up court passing it to wing going a standing in the corner. And then Paul Lance would do their thing and occasionally they'd drop an end to Roy Hibbert David West can clean up you know around the mid range area. But it is relieve the office went through Paul George and Lance and you could argue that was the right thing to do. But I frustrated Roy George she'll dealt with that he would like standing in the corner right and he got criticized for not being more aggressive which I never understood that right no sense to me. But he's standing in the corner trying to be good teammate and those two guys are doing their thing on the wings and roars frustrated that he's not scoring more. And that's just kind of came apart at that point was who what was. Frank trying to get done what did frank want out of that group playing that style of basketball for that period of time. I think that I think it was effective I mean they scored OK they're great defensive team Riley but they did score. And I think it was just the way that. It everybody was okay within except for roared basically hill except that it David West just wanted to win and he could do all the dirty work and you're get midrange jumpers. They kept Paul George your best individual players at least offensively happy. And Roy was the guy who had a sacrifice to really make a world can he did do degree did in 2013. You know when they first got to the conference finals and he has an all star player yet he Everest won he we just lost her the next year and be and what he intent and there are conference finals against Miami because Miami had no sender so they got the ball roared when the match up was there to do so. But added if I was sent you know they're going through their two best individual tell some offense and letting other guys contribute as well. And Roy just had a difficult time accepting that. Who among all the coaches who will will talk about pacers history who among all the coaches. It had the biggest impact. And as a strategist and as a person it's got to be slick right Miami Heat he's had to be the guy who had the biggest impact on this team yes yet. And that one thing my book details of how he changed the culture of the team in the pacers. After the first year they acquire Mel Daniels they've got. In a future hall of famers or Mel Daniels Roger Brown may have all stars and pretty loose about medically he may get off to a 17 start you know there are. Losing close games but they're losing to one and seven. And they win the last game Larry steer remind Coastr to a seventh slick comes in. It didn't happen overnight but he gradually changed the culture of the team and I was able to kind of detail how he did that. The practices he ran at the Steffi said in the newspapers is Steffi said on buses. That type of thing and and so slick. Certainly changed the culture for talking to NBA years I would say Larry Brown had the biggest impact as far as advancing them to another level. Select was his strategic indicator or was he just kind of back guy from Terre Haute curse Meyer who's set it like he's sought. And guys had to deal with. It was both yeah both he had the ability to really come down mom they're a team or an individual. But he can also throw his arm around via independent review pep talk and he. He just worry is a natural role. Psychologist you know he just knew how to communicate with the guys and he was a strategist and his players who talk about he would change the office at halftime of a playoff games sometimes. Now there were times when he overdid it and they probably lost game because he over thought things yeah I mean I've. Players I was with one yesterday you told me yeah there were times when he went too far with the but there were times certainly worked well for he was. Kind of a natural strategist. He was a kind of a knee jerk reactionary to things and sometimes you know made too many changes news always messing around with the starting lineup. Ode to a fault I think but still he was a great communicate with the lawyers. And knew how to new wind to get Don lemon new wind so from left to. I am assuming because who musical selection by Scott Agnes that your huge Beatles aficionado I am and I was just talked with Scott and I believe you played Sargent Pepper's lonely yes they did you know that's appropriate because that was a song in 1967 to write the album came out and shoot a 67 in the ABA was formed in the summer. The 67 and this summer love so. We prepare one. You know a couple of months ago I was targeted Darnell Hillman about road trips and about the togetherness and the camaraderie of that team. You know in the ABA back in those days guys weren't making great money. And in so maybe they were more prone to hang together and you think that's the case do you think that huge wealth. Has kind of isolated. Teammates from one another. You need to have that kind of thing still. All you still have great camaraderie here you know Larry bird's teams Arafat had great camaraderie for example and even the ones after that war Rita Bender arid and don't deal though both groups were pretty tight for the most part our test was a little bit of a lone wolf most of those guys seem to be pretty tight so you still haven't. I don't think the salaries affected that much because the first pacer team that first season. Didn't have great camaraderie and you know against slick chains that when he came in the next year and no salaries the first year Kirk you know the first. Media relations scare for the patients bill marble he made 151000 a year that was more than some of the players made why don't let them know we can't give up. And that that was good money that right today my job first job out of college in 1977 and the Marion chronicle to be and I made 75 and thirty year so these guys for making twice that you know or eight years earlier so. It wasn't that bad but. I don't think the money affects it as much as people think this is personalities you gotta have the right leadership among the players. The pacers were lucky to have slick whom made them come together after games and spend time together in the hotel bar and he knew how to communicate with guys. But it was also because that's like Mel Daniels. Had just had a great heart. It would stick up for teammates in the paper would have a heart to heart talk with the rookie Billy killer tells a story that he still remembers the conversation he had with Mel. After a game at southern Methodist against Dallas. Billy's rookie year and he said that the back conversation I finally felt like part of the team you know so it took more than slit you gotta have the right leadership among the players to. Is that rare thing is that becoming rarer as analytics become a big part of the evaluation process with players I spent a lot of time yesterday with Ryan Carr. Just great the director of player personnel. And edit what a great story he's got. But there's a lot of analytics to it and maybe you overlook the weight personalities kind of kind of sped in and I only saw that. Maybe gave maybe I was completely wrong. Where that was something that Larry Bird and maybe because of his own presence with the Celtics. And and how he his personality was in the op ultimately important to those teams. Maybe he just sees it as stuff where will can overcome. Personalities that don't necessarily fit in so that became a lesser priority. I agree that actually I think Byrd was less concerned about. You know Monta else's and examples of guys really played to win he played heard you hardly ever missed a game we played hard every time out. You know and literally think about the personality bestowing bird thing says look at her good player will figure a way to get along you know right figure way to put together. But it does seem to be more important you know to have a locker room that meshes because if you don't like the guys who work with it affects your job performance regardless of the occupation. The teams of the ninety's mid ninety's to 2000 that he is huge chute is still people love that T I think people would go pay to watch a team played today. As old as those guys are what made that team special. They've been together a long time Donnie Walsh showed great patience in keeping them together your member of the the beginnings of those teams were under Bob Hill. Late eighties early ninety's you know rich you. And Rick Smith and dale Davis came onboard and there were four consecutive years where they finish with any game a five under and there's a lot of frustration you know I was sitting here event and you know fans forget river walls were stock you know blow it let you know Brad holt tanking at thing came up. And wall stuck with that in kept adding pieces and when they got Larry Brown here that coaching took them to another level. And it became a conference finalists. And you get a couple breaks here and there indeed keep adding little pieces you trade for Mark Jackson NetApp the thing. And you get Jalen Rose finally and then you finally get to where your championship contender and it took a lot of patience spent. You had you had a classic point guard he had shooting guard Reggie you had a power forty Edison under all that kind of thing. But it took a lot of patience on the part of Walsh and the ownership to to stick with that. I think it's really interest thing that Larry Brown hated Jalen Rose staff and then when bird takes over Jalen blossoms. And India see how different methods of leadership wrote you don't kind of prompt different results and we've seen that really clearly with a lot of the coaches there pacers. Alon was uninteresting I remember my first jurors to be ready for the star was Zealand's first year here Larry Brown's last year's coach. And Larry Brown saw jail and has a fab five guys those guys who were the shorts and a black fox and everything and you know question to his attitude toward the game in jail certainly have maturing to do. Remember that your this season opener the pacers head was in Detroit in jail and was guarding Grant Hill on this guy roasted grid here was back the bell for layups and a score you will. In the next day or practice spec and indeed Apple's brown takes rose decides sustained when he got to play defense he can't. The out there has given a basket she got to guard somebody in Genesis Horry coaching nobody gonna be ball on me and I. Larry Brown wanted yeah and so he was in the dog house from that point on he had one game under Brown's good graces and from that point on was in the doghouse he had either thirteen or fourteen. Dean Pees CDs that year Yahoo! in denial I at all. And so he was really into it hurt him is. And burglary Bergkamp sin and he didn't care about the fab five stuff forward Jalen it's. Cockiness and whatever he saw a guy who loved to play with a lot of talent and he stalking them Jalen Rose before Eva starts training camp. And Taylor lit up man ended this meter world whatever she saved. Larry Brown did a radio show for us when not when I was at WIB sin because we became the partners since Hillary do a show. And somebody asked him on the air about Jalen Rose and he says. And have a clue man this cup can you imagine ahead on this football coaches say bad about occurred player. Yeah he just outrageous the new brown was blocked that way he could you hurt your feelings you know but. There were said because there there has to be a middle ground Jalen needed to grow up a little needed to try to guard somebody you know. M which he did once date Carter came in with the burden everything out the whole thing changed. But brown could have seen the talent but you know that whole season Larry Brown had a foot out the door yeah underwrite his contract was. He'd done all we could hear he was ready to move on. Derek McKee and Rick's miserable heard about half the year so they weren't gonna have a great season anyway and Larry Brown or capture them to mark my teeth pacers. Some signings coming up but let me ask you about Donnie Walsh because Donnie Walsh is really interest thing. Figure I was gonna say character but he's really not a he's not a character in the sense that he's a character but. It may be along with like if you're gonna say exit to guys where the most important pieces of the puzzle for the pacers during their fifty year history. It gets slick and he had Donnie yeah. Yeah I think so as far as non players who made. Championships happen armed championship contention happen and Donny came in. In 1986. He had been an assistant coach here who hires an assistant coast to become a general manager he had a law degree. And that helped the reason he got a job with that herb Simon interviewed Billy Cunningham. For the position in Billy's set and a lawyer talk to me you got a guy right here who could do the job Donnie Walsh. Cunningham already headed North Carolina guy yet had your connection with North Carolina and Cunningham. Was a beating men nice purity had something lined up in Orlando we expand franchise. But anyway that herb Simon soul can talk to dawning in the heart of and it worked our great but it you don't. It took awhile donny's first year he hires Jack Ramsay in the peace is made the playoffs shook persons rookie of the year. A disguise as a genius and then you go through stress were at levels often. Yet injuries careers are ending early Stepanovich you know Clark Kellogg these careers are ending early. And you go through appeared to mediocrity were people want to Donny out here yeah and fortunately for the franchise for so I'm stuck with them and did he bade. Donnie drafted very well and he made some great treat somebody did that the shrimp fork over the hill herb Williams. Trading dale Davis for Jermaine O'Neal I mean he made some great trees along the way in in my opinion never made. A bad when he made some neutral ones but only you were made a bad and so he just kind of pieced together. I would always evaluate that tenor of the pacers organization based upon how people behaved at the golf outing. And if the employees the world like consider the Ol and hang in together arms around each other. That I I saw as boy this really happy group of people as he was guest. And I was taught that there was like donny's greatest gift when created a valuation aside. The people that you don't necessarily see. They hired well and maybe your bricks he isn't having it is huge influence over the is still. Hired people well who got along and nobody ever leaves you know end in and I always thought that Donnie was a big part. I'm creating that culture where where people worked really really hard but they also enjoyed each other there. Don is a guy who did work very hard he's a workaholic I thought and also did not have a big ego and did not beat his chest he didn't have a Bill Polian approach of you know having those. You know intimidate people right people were walking on eggshells around done he was just a good guy who worked really hard and did his job. Until the pacers moved to the field house when their market square Donnie basically was at the top of everything I mean the CEO answer to all men. Marketing people answer to them he was in charge of everything and everybody respected him I mean I've been around the pacers for a long time. And literally in private conversation have never heard anyone say a bad word about Donny and you know you know the mayor Addis seatbelt. Really manner so he because she's she's very Smart. He's got IQ he's got a EQ the emotional quotient of knowing how to deal with people he worked really hard he didn't have a big ego. And is that kind of filtered down so you know it I. One of the frustrations serve which houses for me at the Starker when a patient all those years was in our respected the pacer management more than I respected the star's management. Yeah. Now the star gonna mourn at the start management has changed a lot Cynthia all right so we're not talking about the current group but the in you know. People at the star saying you know what stunning new on this and I'm thinking we'll look at the people you card you know I mean we're talking about apple felt. That was actually kind of an awkward thing we assign little cancer respect for Donnie and I didn't always have respect for the people or is working for. Tell people the difference between knowing basketball the level you do you played high school basketball you've covered basketball forever. You know a lot about the game of basketball. And then the guys who do it for a living does that donny's in the cabins. And and those guys what is the difference between what fans know even really intelligent fans about basketball. And the guys who do this for eleven I. Think lute and number one they have access to a lot more information in or what's going around the league. They know what kind of guy so and so whiz you know pacers might pay a pacer fan my thing while they trade for that guy he's available. But they know that no coach that guys ever play for like him or something like that right have access to a lot of information. And beyond that I'm not sure. There's much because I think it's a question of judgment and you know when your drafting how do you know this in the shooting guard at UCLA's gonna become hall for amber and he was a good player but he can't predict. Riot act and same thing so how do you predict. That poll George is gonna become agreed count them all star bid may struggle dealing with. Some of the elements of famous for you know that kind of thing there's lot of things you can't predict so there's always a block element to it as well. If it did to me and a lot of it's about five and just sit with a dialogue can mean the guy in understanding. Does he listened. Does he tried to make and it under attempt to sort of have a conversation. That goes someplace or is he trying to impress. All of that kind of stuff but don't like talking Ryan Carr yesterday we're talking about dream on green. And now everybody kills the pacers and there are a lot of teams being killed because dream on I think when 33. So every team in the NBA passed on him including twice by the Golden State Warriors right almost right. And hit the way he explained. Here's why we didn't take him. As well. That makes a whole lot more sense is there and let me just yell on out it is saying look at the results those guys on the front end as they made that decision. Had some really good reasons for making and it wound up being costly here you know it'd homily vs Graeme on go pick. But you know it's like. And. I I wish I got to have more more conversations. A do you think the most common mistake teams make in drafting or personnel in general is. Drafting for need supposed to talent and I understand you're okay. You may not draft dream on green because you have polls George here and and Danny Danny Granger is healthy at that point we don't need another Ford we need a big guy. By calmly but. Still I say take talent and sorted out later you know if you think one guy is truly. More talented and has a better chance to have a great career than the one you're going to draft. Take that guy Daniels had to make a trade later on you because you've got to have talent and he just got to. And a great argument for that is that miles turner is the longest tenured pacers. So drafting for need in here you're gonna have old news seven needs in three years somebody's gonna get hurt or somebody's attitudes. Ownership and you'd trade him you've got to just take talent and then this sorted out later because. The league is all about tell us about rushing and effort and all that but you can't win bay without that huge amount of talent. And it's hard to have too much and if you have to trade somebody down the road. To improve chemistry or whatever you can do that you could always trade count right so but right no that's. I'd like Donny said wants to people criticize you for giving me a Jalen Rose to Max contract in the trading him a few years later. But at least you have an asset that you can trading you get a lot for that player you know maybe you do have to trade a guy with a Mac. Paul George gets treated Jalen Rose is treated Jermaine O'Neal got treated they got Max contracts. He could say they should never have gotten those. But at least you've got to an asset that you can get something in return for. And and also players know they come to the basis that they will give you a Max contract if you perform. You like you Bill Belichick Kennedy's death Tom Brady year and I can addressed over the top of Tom Brady but they use a third rounder decoded Jimmy Brooke drop below. And then the next year they go get to Kobe percent with a third rounder. And those guys yea Matt Cassel they had Plame behind Brady they dealt him got stuff back you know and indeed if to me and Belichick stolen it while it did the argument lands absolutely you know we're so tired a mark on T to pacers dot com and the author. Are reborn the pacers and the return of pro basketball to Indianapolis tells about the book. It covers the formation of the franchise in the first two seasons that doesn't get to championship seasons I got up to 400 pages to set a better stop right here. If there's a particular James mission iMac you have to that I but I you know my original thought years ago was to do something and they either covered all nine years of the ABA or even the teams before the pacers and the ABA bit that I got so much material. I had a narrow the focus I was lucky to get access to internal documents on the pacer franchise in the formation John Devoe was founder. And was the second team president agree guy one of the guys to. But this franchise together XT died of a heart attack Andy game the second year of the franchise spoof highly regarded guy. He had pitted personal files he had huge scrap books and so forth. He would bills are passed on to his brother chuck Devoe and I met with chuck. 78 years ago and shark gave those two. So I had access to minutes from league meetings. While Don Devoe attended the very first day BA draft in 1967 in Oakland and I've got his yellow legal pad re starting down the draft hasn't happened. You know idle or starred Natalie key was the sector rounder epic terms he was third rounder after you know this little things like right at it I've got in the book goes photocopy of the letter. Were on devotion to check for 30000 dollars to the acting ABA accountant to four official entry into the ABA you know this is to beginning yours or 30000 dollars he said don't cast is until you get others to a tough act as part of a sudden got you know rural and it paid credit card bills. About guys you know like the story behind you know Mike stormed their first GM had to get him you know there's a connection there and he is actually their second source. Public come up of Larry state governments the coach how do you start a franchise at the end of June or February. Aniston play game nine months later you know ID tour together that quickly open tryouts in June you know were people off the street trying to for the pacers. Training campus Saint Joseph's College you know what happened up there. You know that is they gave guaranteed contracts to some guys who weren't very good and didn't give and other guys who tutored turned out to be really good you know just chaotic. Situation as it was bound to be when you're starting a whole new league you know your new team in the new league. Is all by the CD your pants so was still isn't this a lot of hilarious stories. And then you know you play our first season. You've got a guy named Reggie Harding off the streets of Detroit a seven footer with hall of fame talent who's from the streets who takes a gun with them on a road trip. While there was an into his duffel bag on the airplane in the biggest New Orleans some polls and on Jimmy rail is roommate. Joking around they Jimmie pulls a gun on him. That's in the book on the way home from that trip. He pulls the gun out on the airplane and stirred us goes crazy and I've heard two versions of the store the evil they either put the plane down and took Richie off. Or got the gun and went on back to Indianapolis you know good. That happened you know he took the gun out on the airplane she got stuff like this go one on you got Jimmy rail was passionate about basketball. Talk him back to steer my and then you know throwing so open who are from BC's mad about not playing more this kind of thing. He got Mel Daniels at the very first first of all the pacers hosted the first day BA all star game a ball for that first year took on a huge challenge of he has an illegal we're gonna have an all star game. They lost almost 30000 dollars due and that really matters great for the league began Augusta National exposures on TV around most of the country not everywhere. Larry Brown gets MVP of the game Mel Daniels should've gotten MVP of the game but did the devoting five minutes to go in the game. And Mel let a little late rally and led his team you'll win a third. Larry Brown comes in the locker monster boy Mel I'm sorry you deserve to see if he got a new car Larry Brown got a new car for being MVPs for the pacers did a great job. Putting on a first class all star game but step on some wow and they did you know they lost money. You know the whole early years there winning championship championships they're still losing money so. You got a lot of people make sacrifices to get this franchise soft the ground and then just the dumb luck of you Akeelah started team. What does a guy and working in a factory in Dayton Roger Brown was really good get a go try to get him mostly give him a future hall of Famer. Freddy Lewis is backing up Oscar Robertson for the royals storm because she worked there knows about Freddy signs Freddie so there's a feature all star. Back up. At the in the first year. The Minnesota franchise is moving to Miami and they need cash real quick so they saw you Mel Daniels the rookie of the year for 100000 dollars to get the future hall of Famer for a wow thousand dollars which even then wasn't that much. And you get Bob that licking the third round he's an all star so and then the second year you're off to a bad start you're under performing we need a new coach. All slick letters up the road in Kokomo worker for her Jones you know we could get him to get them down here selling class ring yeah class rings a graduation supplies and he kept that job for like three years. And then they practice either early in the more here in the evening and he'd do his days are for her Jones and coach the team on the side basically in Nancy would run the administration and from the home you know CC organizer. And slicked with the salesman go on the ball high schools the only yuk it up with a school principals. Like if you had a big name so. How lucky is that he had all this came together and without that you know we don't have a conversation today. It's a great read American people picking up Hillary gonna sign yeah it's sad that the local retail outlets is the Barnes & Noble is that book mom is an urban Irvington and and I had never heard of book Obama's frankly. Until recently but I gonna have a signing their Saturday at 2 o'clock both Mamas and Irvington is fond. The address is nine Johnson avenue just south of east Washington street in a hole. Little independent bookstore and intense so cool you know what I've never been there too recently this school that innocent he tells a growing you know area. Is becoming guerrilla hit pretty hip place and so I encourage people you're available Saturday come to book mom with at 2 o'clock I'll be there for couple hours. And then on the 14 October 14 OB at the Barnes & Noble in Kabul from one to four. And have sunny there if there's enough people there won't have a presentation and talk the pacer history and I'll take questions everything from nine both. And I'll do others later but for now both of the teams canceled the book is also going to be at the airport of the smaller were already at the very stores there. It's on Amazon has some bars in mobile dot com. Not difficult to find at all. And I think you know you whether you were around here then know the people that are writing about you'll enjoy the stories. They go in to re professional basketball team is not all. Raw rog go pacers you know there's a lot of unhappy people the right it's life many guys get cut guys get traded there still bitter about it today. You know guys heard talk some guys don't have great attitudes some guys need to kick in the behind the play hard. I'd clear up some miss information you know there's a hockey stick story. In Duluth Minnesota were slick went after middle acute halftime of the game he now broke a hockey stick in his swing and an adamant threatening rhythm to get into play hard. Loose balls told McKenna that that is not accurate. They won't Mel Daniels is memory of that incident and I found out later by reading the newspaper smell wasn't even at the game. He was beckoning me rally with a fluke and bells given details like. Out of hell and after that I would I expect and then I think also loose balls talked about Richard Harding Poland begun to Muriel I tell that more accurately because I. Talked to more people on I got the newspaper accounts and does nothing in the paper about that but I. And did the research you know I put a hole whether or whatever you think of the writing I've put a lot of research into this and it's a lot of information in it as well so I think people wouldn't story. And I think it's terrific not just for pacers fans send in people who wanna know about the early days of the pacers. But I think it's great for like small business owners you know Luke can read it and and see maybe some parallel tracks. Where's the Erie your bail and hey as quick as he can and sometimes you throw in the wrong band and a good idea you know it's just kind of that's sort of things I loved it. Dan thanks should I enjoyed the researcher mean I. This was not like writing a college term paper I look forward to getting out tomorrow laptop a work and on the books more so it was just interesting to me and I was here for some of it I went to games that very first season yeah twelve year old kid you know and I remember some of that stuff and met some of the people in the it was always fun as you know it's fun going out and talking to people don't give you talk to Ryan Carr the other day I enjoyed. Getting finding people finding some obscure players. But you were part of it I think Steve Toobin is a great part of the book where they acquired him and he's here he's such. Handsome guy an aggressive player hugely popular with the men and women and he's loving life like never before and then there's a game in Minnesota. And he's taken a sharply game to save Steve. Restricted. So hard at your best and worst team to lead to New York Mets now and is still uncertainty and controversy over why they made that trade but it. If Steve lives in Denver now he was back here for the races here he's. If he we have glossy and slick in this instance has got together. And so he's not light still mad but it still paints his heart that yeah traitor she could've been on championship teams right and he was a good player on those teams from playing a lot. And Islam and plan for slick and love and bring her roommate of Russia browns. In the trade and the Mets are and where the worst humility. It would get this candid nets came back for the first time and Cuban I would say to this. They've asked to treat and angered fans the most pacer fans to most of this day yeah ratings Toobin. I mean someone threw trash and Mike storage yard Simmons called chuck devote 2 in the morning and yelled at him. We got out I mean that people went nuts over trading Steve Toobin and no one knows who this guy is now. When he came back with a net for the first time the big crowd. Some fans paraded assigned on the court trade storm for chew the I act and let him do it in there I got a picture in the book and Cuban posing with those fish now. And how to act tough and then there slick many years like he wasn't gonna let Truman show up that trade the trader for Ron pair. So they ran the office to carry that night he got thirty points in big daddy wasn't gonna let slick wore wasn't gonna let you monopoly or impair is so he had the office through Eric that night. The period the game of life. Thank you very much for coming and I'm really appreciate it Marc thank you perceive to have from the great mark on teeth from pacers sacked Tom and the author of reborn the pacers and the return to pro basketball to Indianapolis.